View Full Version : Silverstone - Focused Events
http://www.gixerjunkies.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13093&page=8
Decided to pop up a thread of it's own to keep you all posted on progress ;)
This is the letter they recieved via email on Wednesday:
RE: Silverstone 14th May 2007
I attended the above track day in the Novice group with you recently and unfortunately feel the need to write to you to regarding the way I was treated by an instructor.
I am part of a large forum based motorcycle club with over 3000 members. Many of the members are regular track day goers. In fact there were ten of our members at Silverstone on the 14th. Amongst the many track days members attend on their own, the site also arranges club track days through No Limits who provide us with a reasonable discount, Cadwell Park being the first one this year and Donnington in June being our second.
I attended the one at Cadwell and received some very useful tuition from their senior instructor, who showed me safe passing manoeuvres, pointed out my weaknesses and eventually offered to try and move me into a different group, however I was content to stay in the Novice group and practice what I had learnt that day.
Silverstone on the 14th with yourselves was my second track day, and although the weather was not at its best I was still enjoying myself, discovering how to ride round a track in flood conditions!
In the afternoon the weather improved which allowed me to increase my pace and to test various lines around corners.
In one of the later sessions I was passed by an instructor, who gestured to me to slow down. Thinking I had done something wrong or that there was a problem I immediately rolled off of the throttle and tucked in behind him. At the same time a number of bikes passed me, the instructor and another bike. The instructor then continued on, making his way though the traffic.
Later when I returned to the pit lane an instructor (I believe to be the same one) approached me and informed me that I had passed others on the track after the chequered flag had been shown and that this was not allowed. I apologised. I did not mention that in the previous sessions I had been passed by others after the chequered flag, which in my mind had called into question weather is was acceptable to do so. My only other track experience was one where you were still allowed to pass on the last lap, so I was understandably confused. However the instructor informed me of the correct procedure and I was then clear on the matter.
He then went on to say that I was ‘riding on my limit’ and that I was to slow down. This confused me as I had been taking great care through all the sessions to be as smooth and as controlled as possible, especially in the earlier sessions where the track was still wet. I considered all my passing moves to be safe and ‘polite’ and recall just one moment where I made a small mistake causing me to take the wrong line into the next corner.
The same instructor then went on to talk to one of the other riders in the group who is also my friend and was experiencing his first track day. He had overtaken during the last lap too, as he had also become confused by other riders passing him whilst the chequered flag was out, this was explained and the rules were made clear.
Unfortunately my friend had made a pass during the session that had unnerved another rider, the instructor spoke to him regarding this, and he was not particularly tactful in the way that he spoke to him. He made mention of my friend ‘scaring his customers’ and made it clear that this was not acceptable. He then went on to offer to put my friend into the Intermediate group where people would ‘scare him’.
My other friends commented on the instructor’s tone, and even though he did offer to put my friend up into the next group there was very little tact used when he reprimanded him for his actions.
In addition I personally felt belittled when the same instructor approached me on his way out of the garages. He patted me on the arm and exclaimed ‘if this is only your second track day you’re doing very well’, to be honest from his tone and manner I was fully expecting ‘for a girl’ to be on the end of that sentence. Even though he did not say ‘for a girl’ I still felt his manner patronising. This angered me and I felt I couldn’t ride in the last session of the day, as I was not in the right mood to be safe on track.
Looking at your web-site I noticed this statement: ‘these instructors are either current or retired racers that have been hand picked by us to ensure that they can communicate, explain and understand you the customer’. I found the attitude of the instructor on Monday very disappointing, not mirroring that of the statement on your web-site, and completely the opposite to the attitude of the No Limits instructor at Cadwell. I was thoroughly enjoying myself up until that point and was looking forward to a steady last session in the sunshine. I am very disappointed that I felt unable to do this due to the way I was spoken to.
I hope that you are able to mention this to the instructor concerned; (unfortunately I do not know his name) and possibly advise him to use more diplomacy in future when speaking to people.
I would appreciate it if you could advise me of your opinion on the matter and of any action you may take. I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.
Regards
Gemma
Had an email today from Focused Events.....apparently they are investigating.....I believe Tweek spoke to the chap in charge on the day ;)
Dear Gemma,
Thank you for taking the time to write and advise us of the issues you encountered on Monday. We will investigate this matter thoroughly as we do not wish to read of the issues that you have highlighted. However, one thing that would help moving forward, is if at any stage in the future you are with us and encounter something that you are not happy with, then please discuss this with the Operations Manager on the day as he is a very senior member of the Focused team and can take prompt and corrective action to any feedback there and then.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to write.
Kind Regards
Focused Events
excellent letter, well done!
lets hope something comes of it
An apology would do me :)
The Bride
18-05-2007, 17:44
Fantastic letter Gem ... I cant see how they could NOT apologise ... and I think a track day voucher would be fair compensation ... ;)
Well I know for a fact 7fiddy spoke to him regarding the chequered flag thing and I spoke to him about the way the instructor had spoken to you... maybe if you send a reply you could highlight that ;)
Gonna give em a coupla days to get back to me with any apology that instructor might have and if I get no joy I'll send another letter explaining just that ;)
right waited long enough so poked them again: (obviously I included the original message ;))
Would it be possible to have an update regarding this? I would like to point out that on the day the issues experienced were pointed out to the manager at the time by a number of people, unfortunatley he didn't seem at all interested hence my original mail to yourselves.
I would be interested to know the outcome of your investigations.
Regards
Gemma
Gemma,
Thanks for the note and sorry to read that the Operations Manager on the day was not interested. With regard to our investigations, these are not things that are made public, nor should they be as they still involve individuals who give their time. However, the matter has been concluded and corrective action has been taken.
Kind Regards
Focused Events
and my reply.....
Thank you for your promt reply, however I believe that in the interest of good customer service I should have at least recieved as a bare minimun an email to inform me that the matter had been resolved.
Also an apology from the instructor concerned would not have gone amiss.
I am dissappointed that neither of these have been forthcoming and am very tempted to highlight my experience on the motorcycle club forum that I regularly use, (www.gixerjunkies.co.uk) as to be treated in such a condescending manner by a senior instructor is not something that I wish my fellow club members to also experience.
Regards
Gemma
Is it me or are they taking the proverbial????
OMG they might as well have said "**** off"
Gonna give em 24 hours and then this thread goes public ;)
The Bride
06-06-2007, 14:17
How rude of them not to get back to you and to fob you off in such a way ... grrrrrrr
Smiler33
06-06-2007, 14:19
Thats what I call short shift! They've done f**k all but they're not going to admit that to you!
I somehow doubt your going to get a response now Zuki, time to expose.
Thank you for your note and I am sorry if you feel that you wish to take this course of action. However, with due respect, we have taken the appropriate action and the matter has been dealt with. I am not aware of many organizations who would advertise the results of any disciplinary action that they have taken and still wish to retain employees and volunteers on their staff. People are well intentioned in what they do and if occasionally this is not the case then the appropriate action is taken.
We have a very strong pool of instructors who are highly thought of and are in high demand during our days and prior to the event who are booked for personal instruction. I am sorry that your experience was not up to the level that you would of expected, however, this matter has been dealt with and is now closed.
Kind Regards
Focused Events
Well it looks like they really don't give a sh*t! Tweek can you please move this to the Track Days section so everyone can see how they treat thier customers?
flashart
07-06-2007, 12:50
This comes as no real suprise to me in all honesty, FE have always seemed the most unfriendly TDO in my opinion and only really seem to be there to get your cash and to hell with everything else, myself I only tend to use FE now as a last resort but unfortunately they do seem to get the cream of dates and tracks so I end up using them more than I really want :(
I'm glad you made this public, and that patronising old fart of an instructor should be fired off, because there's no way he should of waved you down, let alone speak to customers in the tone he did.
Mark, FE Operations Manager, was really not interested in anything we had to say on the day as far a I'm aware, which is piss poor management skills IMO.
I've been using FE for about 4 years and they've really gone down hill over the last 12 months, and only seem interested in taking your money.
They bang on about safety this safety that, but I went to Silverstone with a friend last year who was a novice, and I mean novice, when signing on they tried to talk her into the fast group because they'd over booked the novice group, because that was the only place they could squeeze her in.
Kevin Healys words where, "just go steady until we can move you around" WTF, how's that safe.
She had to all but bang her fist on the counter in protest saying she'd booked and paid for novice, and novice group she was getting.
Somebody that was not so keen to voice there anger could of been fobbed and put in a situation where an accident could of been very likely.
This also happened to another friend of mine at Brands.
Hadn't done brands for 6 years, so booked novice, and again, he is a novice rider, but again, they'd over booked.
He was asked if he'd done Brands before, and said, yes, 6 years ago, and Kevin turned around and said we'll put you in the fast group then, because the novice is busy.
one session later, he had to kick up a right stink to be moved because he was completely out of his depth.
And another occasion, I was at Mallory park, 9 of us in the fast group, fantastic me and my mate thought, until Mark came over the loud speaker at dinner time and said that if anyone that has ever fancied a go in the fast group, today was the day.
Me and my mate spent the rest of the afternoon riding around people that were clearly novice group, and killed any rhythm that was to be had, in between the red flags.
Greed I'd call it, and putting the customer second.
At one point I thought they were the best, but, NO LIMITS are the daddys in my opinion.
Unfortunaly the general british attiude is, oh well, musn't grumble, but where does that get us?
I do hope FE can find the time between counting there money, and come on this site and read this thread, cos I think Zuki has given them enough time to prove ther worth, and I'm sure there's enough unhappy track day addicts out there to keep this thread going and going with complaints.
Rant over!
Nice One Zuki:thumbsup: wish I could write letters like that instead of losing it and ranting and raving in a letter.
F Events r rubbish in my expierience too. Ask you a million questions about your experience/bike etc when you phone them up to book then they put you wherever the hell they like on the day. Kevin Healey is a ****.
F Events r rubbish in my expierience too. Ask you a million questions about your experience/bike etc when you phone them up to book then they put you wherever the hell they like on the day. Kevin Healey is a ****.
Joe, don't hold back mate, say what you really think
Kevin Healey is a ****.
Well said that man!:a1:
Gemma,
Thanks for the note and sorry to read that the Operations Manager on the day was not interested. With regard to our investigations, these are not things that are made public, nor should they be as they still involve individuals who give their time. However, the matter has been concluded and corrective action has been taken.
Kind Regards
Focused Events
and my reply.....
Thank you for your promt reply, however I believe that in the interest of good customer service I should have at least recieved as a bare minimun an email to inform me that the matter had been resolved.
Also an apology from the instructor concerned would not have gone amiss.
I am dissappointed that neither of these have been forthcoming and am very tempted to highlight my experience on the motorcycle club forum that I regularly use, (www.gixerjunkies.co.uk) as to be treated in such a condescending manner by a senior instructor is not something that I wish my fellow club members to also experience.
Regards
Gemma
Is it me or are they taking the proverbial????
the very least they should have done was to have kept you informed. as i see it i doubt they have done much more than asked the fella in question about the day in question, he's probably laughed and said something patronising and his collegues have probably just laughed with him and said lets just fob her off with a few lines in an e mail.
i think you should post this on visordown and any other site you use and e mail it to mcn etc
Raverbiker
07-06-2007, 21:19
Glad ive seen this thread..i havent been on 1 of there days in well over 18months..so things must have changed(for the worse), last time i was with them at snetterton i had a cracking day..they all seemed friendly enough..granted the instructers i spoke too on the day were trying to fire people up to ride quicker(but thats what i was there for)
I can understand that if it had of been my 1st trackday i,d have prob been a little put off
I,ll keep this in mind when im booking again...No limits are a top company there days ive done have been top..i,d also give plenty of praise to Hottrax..ive had some great days with them too :)
:dance2: RAVER:dance2:
i think you should post this on visordown and any other site you use and e mail it to mcn etc
Gemma
I would give it some serious thought if you are gonna send it to MCN!
From my own experience, I have to say that MCN love printing letters - but be aware that they also love to edit them - dramatically in some instances - before going to print!
They have the questionable knack of turning things around so that you end up looking rather stupid, instead of getting your true point across!
Still - you could get letter of the week - and win something useful. BSB tickets, Hein Gericke vouchers etc etc!
Apart from the week I got it - winning a poxy signed print of Neil Hodgson on an AMA Duc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Free to a good home if anyone wants it? Can't stand the bloke!
Well i think its pretty crap how thy have treat you Zuks , great letters by the way, know where i will be coming when want an important letter doing ;)
I am very flexible with trackdays that I can do and upon the basis of how they have treat you I will not be using them ever again
flashart
07-06-2007, 22:04
Gemma
I would give it some serious thought if you are gonna send it to MCN!
From my own experience, I have to say that MCN love printing letters - but be aware that they also love to edit them - dramatically in some instances - before going to print!
They have the questionable knack of turning things around so that you end up looking rather stupid, instead of getting your true point across!
Still - you could get letter of the week - and win something useful. BSB tickets, Hein Gericke vouchers etc etc!
Apart from the week I got it - winning a poxy signed print of Neil Hodgson on an AMA Duc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Free to a good home if anyone wants it? Can't stand the bloke!
seriously? I'll have it off you if no one else has jumped in for it yet
and yes I can confirm that MCN are a little "free" with the letters they get :slap:
seriously? I'll have it off you if no one else has jumped in for it yet
PM your address and it's yours!
flashart
07-06-2007, 22:23
PM your address and it's yours!
PM sent :D :a13:
99morg99
07-06-2007, 22:26
such a shame when they treat you bad. an apology costs nothing, why are they so reluctant???? agree that no limits (in my not very large experience) seem friendly, more organised, and genuine people. last FE session i went to was last week and they only had two instructors on and off all day
There was one more email they recieved from me.......the one with the link to this thread ;)
I'm tempted to write to MCN but as you say Mr Map editors can be very liberal with thier skills!
To me customer service is very important, and FE didn't deliver.....
Feel free to correct me, but do we not have at least 1 resident P.B journos on here now?
Can they do anything to help?
Or could we at least point them in the direction of the thread, & let 'em make their own minds up.
Feel free to correct me, but do we not have at least 1 resident P.B journos on here now?
ooh do we ???
er yep but his just had an off
http://www.gixerjunkies.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20242
I've got to say something in defense of focused here... I did three track days with them last year and always found them to be very professional. Over the days I got some great instruction from the instructors including a BSB racer one day and a WSB racer another (can't remember names, sorry). Also chatted to the guys there and found them to be very friendly and helpful.
Nice to see at least one person has had a good experience with them! I just wish I'd been treated as well as you!
snoopyKTFC
16-06-2007, 01:12
That's FE trackdays off my list then - stuff 'em - I hate cretins like that with a vengance.
Nice to see at least one person has had a good experience with them! I just wish I'd been treated as well as you!
Aww gemma i will make it all better for you baby...
...scotty dont hit me i was just being friendly...
...thats the way gemma oooooh
Only just seen this thread - Good on you Gemma for saying something. You pay your money and you don't expect to be spoken to rudely - manners don't cost anything.
To be honest I'm not surprised they didn't update you with how they had dealt with the matter internally - I think most companies would be similar.
However, the wording of their e-mails is somewhat condascending and I think you got point across really well.
:thumbsup:
flashart
16-06-2007, 07:03
Nice to see at least one person has had a good experience with them! I just wish I'd been treated as well as you!
In all fairness I've never had a bad day with FE but I've always just had that feeling that they're there more for the money than your enjoyment (and there briefings go on n on n on n on), as for the instructors there not all bad, one of FE's instructors is a member on here so they've not all come from the darkside ;)
MyBumsOnFire
12-01-2008, 10:16
Ive just read this thread with interest as Scotty directed me to it.
Is it something to do with women and FE? this must be the 6th women ive heard about who has had problems with attitude from the tinpot company.
My wife Tam did a trackday with them last year(snett) shes an inters rider and was told that coming Into russels she had a few guys behind her so she had to go into novice!!!!
She found that to be quite strange as the rest of the track she was spanking about a third of the guys arses in the group!!!
Tam is a sensitive girl and this ruined her day, she only did the two sessions and after being told that she packed up.
When Tammy was riding in novice on previous days she was one of the quickest and was tripping up on people, even two of the marshals came over and told her she needs to move up!!
Since she moved from novice she had done about 7 track days in inters.
When Tam sent a letter to complain they ignored it so she sent an email, they ignored that,then she sent another letter and an email, she got a letter telling her they cant cater for her, in other words F%*k off!!!!
The only thing i can think of is they overbooked (as usual) and someone (a man!!) wanted to move from novice to inters and they saw Tam as an easy target.
Since this happened we and about 15 of my mates wont use them, instead we use NoLimits and have a good rapport with them.
Zuki, sorry to hear of your bad experiance, dont let this put you off trackdays as i think its great that women get involved, its a pity more dont but with arseholes like that around im not suprised!!!
P.S that Healy is a fat ****!!
davemfox
12-01-2008, 10:27
In all fairness I've never had a bad day with FE but I've always just had that feeling that they're there more for the money than your enjoyment (and there briefings go on n on n on n on), as for the instructors there not all bad, one of FE's instructors is a member on here so they've not all come from the darkside ;)
Me too...did a lot with them last year; however I never came across Healy, so maybe that had a lot to do with it. The Ops Manager who always seemed to be running it was Barry (?) and he was fairly straight with me.
One item that a load of us had issues with was one of their tyre guys at Silverstone - had about as much get up and go as a sweaty sock. Couple of mates lost two sessions as he was soo lazy....
Dave
First thing I would say - and I'm playing devil's advocate here - but I would be very suprised if during the briefing, especially the novice one, they did not make it clear that the last lap is a slowdown lap with no overtaking. These TDOs see stupid behaviour all the time and if you pass people on the 'in' lap, they get complaints and have to deal with them.
However - I do understand the confusion, No Limits are the only TDO who run the fast 'in' lap. It works well to get you a lot of track time, especially on long tracks where the slowdown can take forever. It can also be more dangerous because people stay on the power and forget about pulling it - I saw a really nasty mess on one of their trackdays from two guys dicing on the last lap and the guy behind forgot about pulling in, rear-ending the poor guy in front.
Having said all that, I rate No Limits as the best TDO out there today, perhaps behind only Phil Bevan's events. FE, I would rate as the worst. If you go, ride and have no problems, then they are fine. But like any organisation, you really only understand how good they are when you encounter a problem. FE can be rude and dismissive, I have heard many reports of this from others. I have heard a number of track managers slate their behaviour to both myself and other TDOs, they are definitely viewed as the most high-risk organiser out there.
My advice, especially if you are only getting into the TrackDay thing, is stick with No Limits. They remember their regular punters, look after you and you get the same, good guys every time. On the odd occassion one of their instructors might have been a little too aggressive on track, but then they are racers and are used to exchanging paint - so sometimes they struggle to understand how unnerving it is for normal pilots. And these incidents would only happen in inters or fast.
I'm really sorry you had a bad experience on only your second day - go back to No Limits, tell them why you are riding with them and of your experience of Focussed. They will appreciate the feedback, remember you and look out for you. You do get a personal service from them if that is what you are after.
Disclaimer - I do still use FE, but I know what I'm getting when I do. However I will always prefer to use No Limits. And I have no affiliation with NL, just several years of good experiences.
SkateKitten
12-01-2008, 11:49
Its certainly interesting reading this thread! I've only done one trackday and that was with FE. I saw what I thought were some interesting overtaking manoevers which the marshals didn't do anything about ( on the apex of corners) and they stuck me out to do my sight laps in the middle of an Inters group when they knew it was my first ever trackday. I couldn't do the sight laps with everyone else as my trackbike wouldn't start so I went home and got my gixer which I had had for just one week. Doing those sight laps terrified me, I don't think i had ever felt so terrified as I looked down Paddock Hill with people getting their knee down on either side of me.
I almost didn't go out again but my other half pretty much stuffed me back on my bike and sent me out in the Novice group where I should have been.
I didn't have any particular problem with FE, I certainly didn't feel that they treated me differently because I'm a girl, if anything they were more confident of my abilities than I was as they sent me out in the Inters group for the 3 sight laps.
Zuki, sorry to hear of your bad experiance, dont let this put you off trackdays as i think its great that women get involved
ah don't worry it didn't, will defo be at Donny in March! All it put me off of is FE themselves..............I'll be the first to admit to doing something wrong or acting a pleb, but poor customer service is inexcusable.................
give me Track Attack, No Limits and Hottrax anyday, they know how to treat thier customers :)
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